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Bobby
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Malmesbury Cape Town
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 Posted: 04 Oct 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: Comments on Koi Show Rules USA style |
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Discussion/ Debate/ Comments on?
Koi Show rules from a USA forum.
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I would guess that I would be in the upper percentile of hobbyists in the US as far as number of koi shows attended, worked, or judged (Culmulatively). That being said I have been pondering for some time on the administrative side of running a koi show. Show packets typically list out a variety of information and "rules". set to act as the "gaurdrails" for a successful show. These rules are also in place to limit controversy and liabilities. They set an even playing field for all entrants within the confines of the rules themselves and are (or should be) designed without consideration for "favorites and should be administered in that fashion.
The following is a set of show rules that as a whole are very good (if not the best that I have seen) but may have issues in their actuality or in the means in which they are applied. Using these rules as a base, what "issues" could typically arise (either from the actual rule itself or the application of such)?
I'll start. How many shows actually collect the SIGNED (by the koi owner) registration form and does it have the "Indemnification" clause? How longs does the club keep those forms? From a legal standpoint, this is the single most important aspect of a koi show yet I can count on my right hand the number of shows where they actually required and enforced this (and I am talking all the shows I have shown at for the last 10+ years (at around 3-4 shows per year as an entrant).
The show with the rules below is one that I actually did turned in a signed copy....but did they keep it and for how long will they? Most legal jurisdictions give up to 2 years for someone to file a lawsuit so I would suggest that they be kept for at least that long by the club.
What else?
XYZ Koi Show Rules
Rules - This is a hobbyist-only show, all fish entered must be owned by and
accompanied by the registered entrant.
Entries are open to all members and non-members of XYZ Club.
Koi or Goldfish dealers or their employees, even part time or informal fish
dealers, are not allowed to show fish.
Past Grand Champions—once a fish has won Grand Champion at an
XYZ Club (XYZ CLUB) Show, it is no longer eligible to participate in
subsequent XYZ CLUB shows. This includes koi, long fins and goldfish.
The XYZ CLUB will take a color digital photo of each fish for benching and
judging purposes.
Entry fees
o For koi and long fins the fee will be $50 for each 7’ show tank.
Volunteers and XYZ CLUB members are entitled to one 50% discount per
household. Pre-registration is suggested to guarantee you a tank.
Use the point calculator to determine how many tanks you will
require.
o For goldfish the fee is $5.00 per fish. Goldfish will be displayed in
10 gal aquariums with a limited number of 20 gal aquariums
reserved for "large &/or active fish." When registering indicate if
you will need a 20 gal tank. The judging rules published by the
AGA (American Goldfish Association) will be used as the basis for
judging.
Fish can be checked in on Friday, Month, Day. Year from 12:00 PM to
6:00 PM. Saturday morning check-in is only by permission of the show
chairman. Early check-in may be available on Thursday. Contact the
show chairperson if you need this accommodation.
The XYZ Club provides one net and one show bowl for each
exhibitor tank. You are welcome to bring your own. All nets and bowls
are disinfected after each use.
The owner or a representative of the owner of the fish must be present at
the tank during benching.
The benching team will check all entries for injuries. If a fish is found to be
ill or injured, the fish will not be judged. The owner may elect to remove
the fish from the tank or leave it until the end of the show.
Benching standards have been established to place a koi into the judging
class where it will be the most competitive against other varieties within
that judging class. Varying from these benchmarks will "typically" put the
koi at a disadvantage. Of course, the competition on the day may cause
some variances, but that again is the exception. The benching team may
discuss class assignment with the owner, but the judges will make the
final determination of which class a fish is assigned to.
o All Gin Rin must be shown in respective A & B classes
• Gin Rin A - Kohaku, Sanke, Showa
• Gin Rin B - All other Gin Rin
o Doitsu is defined as all Doitsu that are not metallic (Hakari), Shusui
(Asagi/Shusui), nor Kumonryu (Kawarigoi)
o Bekkos must be in the Bekko class
o Tanchos include only Kohaku, Sanke, Showa
o Butterfly or Long fins will be shown it their respective A, B and C
classes.
o All metallics (scaled or Doitsu) are placed into the Hikari classes
• Hakari Muji (single colored, including Matsuba)
• Hakari Moyo (patterned)
• Hakari Utsuri (metallic Utsuri and metallic Showa)
Community Tanks for Vendor Purchases -The XYZ Club will
provide show tanks for dealers who sell fish to be entered into the show.
Entrants not showing other fish in the show must register their own fish.
There is a $10 charge per individual. XYZ CLUB will provide the digital photo.
Fish must be in the community tanks by 9 A.M. Saturday. No fish are to
be placed in a tank until registration is completed. The actual owner of the
fish must be present at the time of benching.
The judges shall not view the tanks until the show chairman has removed
the list of owners and indicates that the tanks are ready to be judged.
No one other than the judges, club president, show chairman, and show
committee shall be in the display area while the fish are being judged.
Observers and entrants are to refrain from communications with the
judges during judging.
All entries will be left on exhibit for the duration of the show unless
permission is obtained from the show chairman. If you feel you will need
to remove your fish early please make arrangements as far in advance as
possible so that we can have water and oxygen available for you. You
should plan to remove your fish starting at 2 p.m. on Sunday. All fish
should be removed by 4 p.m. on Sunday.
The XYZ Club will take all-necessary and reasonable precautions to
safeguard entered fish but the owner will assume all risk and
responsibilities of said fish.
The decisions of the show chairman and judges will be final.
Ineligible Fish - Fish fitting any of the following criteria are NOT eligible for this
show and should NOT be transported to the show site.
Fish that have visible signs of injury or illness will not be allowed to
compete in the show and should NOT be transported to the show site.
The decision of the Benching Team will be final.
Koi that have been exposed in any way to Koi Herpes Virus (KHV):
Examples include, but are not limited to,: surviving a KHV infection,
sharing the same water system with a koi with KHV, sharing the same
water system with a KHV survivor, receiving a vaccination of a live virus
KHV serum. XYZ CLUB will enforce this rule to the best of our ability, but we
must ultimately rely on the honesty and integrity of the exhibitor.
Pre-Show Preparation of Fish – remember to follow a few simple steps to make
your journey to and from the show as stress free as possible.
Do not feed fish 4–7 days before the show. This is important because it
helps to reduce ammonia buildup in the show tanks.
Inspect fish thoroughly for signs of illness or injury. Fish that show signs of
either will be disqualified.
Double bag the fish before transporting them to the show. Fill the bags
with oxygen if transport time is over 30 minutes.
Remember to quarantine your fish once you return home.
Notes:
Keep the bags used for transportation to the show. This will allow you to be
prepared for the return trip home.
XYZ CLUB will provide oxygen and water for the return trip home.
Seminars - KHA’s will be present at the show to assist with your pond and fishrelated
questions.
Tank Registration
Koi and Long fins - This is an English style Koi, Long fin, and Goldfish Show.
Each entrant must have their own tank or tanks. Entrants are encouraged to
reserve their tanks early as there are a limited number of tanks. XYZ
Show will maintain water quality for the show, but will insist that tanks not be
overcrowded. XYZ Show reserves the right to make adjustments in the
size tank assigned. We will be following the “Fish Point” system adapted from the
one used by MXYZ CLUB as a guideline for loading tanks.
Koi and long fins will be measured from tip of the nose to the end of the tail
(caudal fin) for determining the fish points below. The following worksheet may
be used to calculate the number of tanks needed for Koi.
Fish Point Calculation
Calculate the fish points for your entries using the following table. Enter the
quantity for each size of Koi and Long fins you are exhibiting. Multiply the
quantity times the Points per Size. Put the subtotal in the Total Points per Size
column. Add all the subtotals and enter the Total Points at the bottom of the
table.
Fish Size Points per Size Quantity You are
Exhibiting
Total Points per
Size
Koi Size 1 (0”-8”) 0.4
Koi Size 2 (8”-12”) 1.0
Koi Size 3 (12”-16”) 2.0
Koi Size 4 (16”-20”) 5.0
Koi Size 5 (20”-24”) 8.0
Koi Size 6 (24” and
over)
12.0
Long fins (0”-8”) 1.0
Long fins (8”-20”) 3.0
Long fins (20” and
over)
6.0
Total Points
The XYZ Show will use only 7 foot tanks.
Tank Recommended Maximum Absolute Maximum
7 ft 25 points 35 points
Divide the Total Points calculated above by 25 to determine the number of tanks
you will need to reserve. Please round up any fractions.
Goldfish - Aquariums and air will be provided for goldfish entries. The usual fish
occupancy for goldfish is 1 mature or 2 young fish for each 10 gallon aquarium.
Cancellations - No refund for tank reservation cancellations will be given after
August 31, 2008.
Photos - This show will employ the use of digital photos for judging and
benching. On the day of registration, digital photos will be taken of the fish prior
to benching. There is no fee for this service.
Benching - Owners MUST be present at time of benching. No Koi will be
benched until the owner has been identified and verified to be in attendance. We
strongly encourage all exhibitors to get their Koi and Long fins benched on
Friday, if possible. Benching is between Noon and 6 PM Friday, September 19,
2008 and, if necessary, resumes on Saturday morning, September 20, 2008 from
7:00 AM to 9:00 AM. Saturday morning benching is only by prior
arrangement with the Show Chair
You MUST have your forms submitted and accepted, your pictures taken and
available and your Koi in your assigned tank no later than 8:30 AM Saturday.
Other than vendor purchases no further entries will be accepted after 8:30 AM.
Benching is cut off at 8:30 AM so judging can get started and completed in time
for the banquet.
Any special circumstances should be addressed to The Show Chair at
name@XYZCLUB.org or 999-999-9999 for consideration.
The following MUST be filled out and signed or your reservation will not be accepted.
You must send both pages.
INDEMNIFICATION
1) I declare that I own the Koi or Goldfish I am entering.
2) I declare that I am a hobbyist and not a Koi or Goldfish dealer or employee of a Koi or
Goldfish dealer.
3) I declare the Koi being entered have not been exposed in any way to Koi Herpes Virus
(KHV).
4) Registrant agrees to indemnify the XYZ Show and XYZ Club from all legal
harm. Registrant agrees to pay all legal fees, court cost, and damages that may arise from
registrant taking any civil action against the club, its members & officers, due to or caused as
a result of any action or negligence of any party.
5) Payment of legal fees, court costs and damages by registrants shall be directly to The
XYZ Show and the XYZ Club. The club shall have the exclusive right to
purchase, consign, or enter into any contract for the purpose of establishing a defense, to
include hiring consultants, experts, and co-council.
BY SIGNING BELOW, I AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS
INDEMNIFICATION AND THE SHOW RULES AS STATED.
SIGNED: _____________________________________ DATE: ______________
For advanced reservations, print and complete the registration form, enclose a
check for the total amount payable to XYZ Club and mail to:
XYZ CLUB Registration
Attention: Show Chair
123 ABC Street
Koiville, Koistate 00000
Registrations containing an e-mail address will receive a confirmation upon
receipt.
Address questions or request additional information:
Phone: 999-999-9999
E-mail: Name@koishow.org
Internet: www.XYZCLUB.org
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Collin
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Pretoria, S.A.
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bobby
Very intrusting show rules. I don’t think you can only make SA shows hobbyist only as there are not the same quantities of hobbyist as in the USA. The fact that you may not enter the same S.G.C. the next year again will mean that more participants will have a winning change. But will you then have the best koi in that area on your show?
Let’s just leave the legal stuff in total you will never get a strait answer from any two administrators if asked one at a time. |
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Bobby
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Malmesbury Cape Town
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion a S.G.C. will always remain a Grand Champion and should also be allocated an engraved trophy permanent. The chapter should always honour the yearly Grand Champions of the past at all shows by way of displaying pictures.
This would also create interest with all members and grow the desire to show a Koi of similar stature.
By levelling the playing field of a particular chapter it will incentivise enthusiast to compete fresh every year without the current general view that a past S.G.C. is going to win again so why bother.
The owner of the S.G.S. can now also compete with the same Grand Champion on the other Chapters around the South African circuit to achieve a National S.G.C. status.
This will allow for more competition around the country and also keep all members interested with the knowledge that all chapters will have a new Champion every year.
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Let’s just leave the legal stuff in total you will never get a strait answer from any two administrators if asked one at a time.
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This is only a view point and should any view be supported by the majority of Koi members to be in the interest of growing the hobby.
Should any one else really be involved?
All paying members should be allowed to put suggestions forward in the interest off the hobby and members should be allowed to vote on issues that concerns them.
You can look at any successful hobby today and you will see member’s participation, members buy-in, happy and growing membership where the members are being consulted on important issues.
A committee should be seen as the body that runs the promotional, operational and admin side of the hobby and enforce the rules as agreed by its members. |
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Collin
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Pretoria, S.A.
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 01:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bobby
I agree with this statment you made:
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| A committee should be seen as the body that runs the promotional, operational and admin side of the hobby and enforce the rules as agreed by its members. |
I hope it will happen here soon. In SA the committee makes the rules and the members must just obey by them and agree with them. |
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WayneB
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Bellville, Cape Town, Western Cape
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think that bobby does have a point but in my opinion the GC should only be prehobited from entering the next year.
Koi and the maintenance of that koi are to expensive to only have it win once and then having to leave it at home and hide it from the world forever.
On the committee thing,
Not sure how things are done in the rest of SA but i think one needs two seperate committees elected at the time of the AGM. One that deals with the admin and promotion side of the hobby and another that focuses on the koi show... I was on the 2005 and 2006 koi show committee but they only tend to get elected or assigned by the normal committee 2 - 3 weeks before the koi show, in the end they are just the workers - the guys putting the site up - which is wrong.
The skills required for the normal committee like admin, finances, communications with members and promotional arrangements are very different from the requirements to arrange and build a koi show. We have people in our org that are very good with admin and finances but they do not really know anything about koi shows.
On the Koi show committee should be the specialists, the workers. The people that are hands on with koi.
The normal committtee arranges the date, sponsors and site and leaves the rest of the site build arrangements to the show committee - ofcourse people can be on both committees if they wish. The show commitee should be responsible for the whole show and everything involved with it including who is showing and who is taking how many ponds...
Whether we have enough willing people to fill two committees is another question...  |
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Bobby
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Malmesbury Cape Town
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 01:23 am Post subject: |
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Wayne, did you see how volunteers are incentivised?
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Entry fees
o For koi and long fins the fee will be $50 for each 7’ show tank.
Volunteers and XYZ CLUB members are entitled to one 50% discount per
household. Pre-registration is suggested to guarantee you a tank.
Use the point calculator to determine how many tanks you will
require. |
Ja, Ja, funds will always be a problem, but a happy and growing club should not have this problem. I can give you as letter that no amount of money will save a hobby and or SAKKS should member's input and suggestions to grow the hobby be ignored and or sidelined.
In my opinion we are already in this phase of losing members and do not see how this problem is being addressed. Our National Chairman has indicated that he is working on a few issues. Its a question of time to see should Mr Till achieve his gaol to grow the membership and the fun aspect of Koi Keeping. Should the structures be in place, all members must take the responsibility to get the lost sheep back to the hobby.l
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Koi and the maintenance of that koi are to expensive to only have it win once and then having to leave it at home and hide it from the world forever.
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Wayne, I respect your opinion, would like to understand how you reached this conclusion and where did you read this suggestion? |
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WayneB
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Bellville, Cape Town, Western Cape
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 08:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Past Grand Champions—once a fish has won Grand Champion at an XYZ Club (XYZ CLUB) Show, it is no longer eligible to participate in subsequent XYZ CLUB shows. |
Hi Bobby, if i koi wins its not allowed to be entered at that show again. Yes its allowed to enter at other shows but that adds even more complications for the owner - now the GC winner is being punished and has to drive 400+km with his one koi to nearest next koi show - where is the insentive in it for him? You are going to loose him as a member in the long run.
We all know that the owner of a GC koi has taken one of two following paths. 1) He either bought the fish big for a huge amount of money or 2) Bought the fish small and grew it to that size, which might have taken him 10 years of his life.
This is where it is expensive. Why would anyone want to do that? For example R 30 000 + for a plastic GC trophey?....or 10 years of your live for the plastic GC trophey? Yes its a honor the first year around but by year 3 no body will remember the poor guy. By year 10 you would have alienated atleast 7 koi hobbyists. How many high quality koi do you think there are in SA....in my opinion not enough to sustain this rule.
Another thng to remember is that the owners of these big koi only have 2 or 4 in their pond because they are so big, so by disalowing him to enter one of his koi you are pushing him out of he hobby. You rather want to use him as a loadspeaker to promote the hobby.
What are you going todo i he sells that koi on to another new hobbyist? Will the new guy not be allowed to participate? |
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Collin
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Pretoria, S.A.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 09:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bobby
I think if we had a support structure like this in place in SA, all shows would be on the same standard. More members would renew their membership fees and more will join. All shows will be equally funded and run more in a professional way.
The structure is not complex and easy to follow.
Chapter Chairmen reports to National sub committees and are a member of that sub committee and the Chairmen of the National sub committees report to the National executive committee and are members of the National Executive Committee. This way you will involve more members and every one will be feeling as if they make a positive contribution towards the successes of the organization of which they are members of.
No person on his /her own can hijack any decision or committee. All sub committees nominate a member to sit on the show committees. All national sub committees must assist their respective chapter committees.
This is the only way that you will achieve the goals of having constant growth at shows and in koi over all. The problem today is, there is no consistency regarding anything related to koi and koi shows. I think we should first address the structure and then have a look at what members want when it come to shows.
I say every chapter must have the opportunity to host the national show funded by the National Executive Committee and the Chapter. |
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Pieter de Villiers
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 450
Location: Krugersdorp, S.A.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 09:40 am Post subject: |
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Collin,
I like your construction of the idea. I would think that a disciplinary committee will be applicable and add in this case.
_________________
Pieter
BEAT THE PARASITES, FEED GARLIC!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sakoi/
www.ppsecurity.co.za |
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Bobby
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Malmesbury Cape Town
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 09:43 am Post subject: |
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Collin, I cannot agree with you more about the importance of sound structures to achieve common objectives.
Wayne, All I am going to say is, that in my opinion you are concentrating on the negatives and turn a blind eye to the many positives for all parties concerned.
A proper analysis of Pro's and Con's should be interesting? |
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WayneB
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Bellville, Cape Town, Western Cape
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Wayne, All I am going to say is, that in my opinion you are concentrating on the negatives and turn a blind eye to the many positives for all parties concerned. |
sorry 
_________________
Koi Adventures
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Collin
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Pretoria, S.A.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi Pieter
I don't think a disciplinary committee should be a permanent committee, I don't hope it will be used a lot. But yes the NEC could form a disciplinary committee if needed.
Bobby
I think you are going in the right direction but as you say a proper analysis of the Pro's and Con's must be done.
I was playing with the idea of structuring shows so that you would have regional shows and then let all the winners of all the regional shows compete against one another for the top honours at the national show. |
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Bobby
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Malmesbury Cape Town
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Moet so 'n skerp brein nou eendag vrot! LOL
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| I say every chapter must have the opportunity to host the national show funded by the National Executive Committee and the Chapter. |
Will this be a first should all members benefit from the National body, expertise and funds? |
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Collin
Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 145
Location: Pretoria, S.A.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 01:03 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bobby
Yes, it will be if on the scale I have in mind. The same recourses and expertise must be available to lets say to East London as to Gauteng.
I think currently chapters gets second hand ponds from the JHB show and money if they asked but not a lot. |
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